Win or Lose | Q&A with Carrie Hobson and Michael Yates
© Disney Pixar
After premiering an episode at Annecy 2023 and a series of delays, Pixar’s first original series, Win or Lose, is out in the world. The show makes full use of the TV format, chronicling a week’s worth of events leading up to a middle school softball game from the perspective of a different character each episode. Seeing the world through each character’s eyes allows for some inventive animation, meshing art styles, editing techniques and animation styles in ways Pixar have never done before.
Creators Carrie Hobson and Michael Yates share credits on Toy Story 4, the sequel being Hobson’s first credit at the studio while Yates was brought into the Pixar fold on Cars 3. Skwigly caught up with the pair to discuss shaping a story around the TV format, tackling adult issues and the long road to Win or Lose seeing the light of day.
When did you decide on structuring the show the way you did?
MY: We were looking into what we could do in a series format that we couldn’t do in a film format. We had a list of things like an ensemble cast and playing with the structure, and that led to this idea of having a hub where all these characters would meet at and we would get to go home with each one. Carrie had grown up playing softball, and that added such a rich tapestry to the world that we really loved.
You tackle big issues through very specific and endearing characters. Did you mould the characters around the topic you wanted to discuss or vice versa?
CH: A bit of both. I feel like the character and the issue are one. With softball as a backdrop, it’s such a fun, rich world and the stakes are high in terms of people’s personal lives, the things they stand to lose or gain, but on the big scale of life, it’s really just sport, so it’s not that big of a deal. Each character came from a little bit of Mike and I, we molded these characters from just either personal experiences or things we had witnessed, and they started becoming their own beings.
MY: One fun thing that I remember from the development stage was we would have all these conversations about stories from our own youth. So some of the characters are versions of us, but at different ages. But having so many characters gets tough because you’re like, ‘How do you make sure there’s not too much overlap?’ So we came up with a system where we wrote out the seven deadly sins, and would describe each episode as the sin of each character. We ended up having eight episodes, so we had to make up one set at the end, but it kept us honest throughout the process in a fun way.
Do you have a particular storyline that you’re attached to?
CH: The two episodes that I feel were very enjoyable in the writing process were the mother-daughter episodesIn the writers room we started playing off of each other, taking on the role of one of the characters and arguing, like, why is like ‘Why is her mom not working harder? Like, she’s just spending all of her time on her phone,’ ‘Well, what you don’t know is that, actually, I have three jobs, okay?’ And it’s almost like you become these characters in the writer’s room.
MY: It was really a fun process in that you try to write the daughter’s episode where the mom is the antagonist, and then completely flipping that by the end of the mom’s episode.
One of the episodes follows a teacher character dealing with adult stuff like commitment issues and online dating. Was that a bit of a risk?
CH: I don’t think we realized at the time that it was a risk but everyone kept telling us it was. The way I look at storytelling in animation, one is that it’s a medium, not a genre, but even if a big chunk of our audience is kids, I don’t think they’re incapable of understanding that adults have lives too. And in fact, it can build empathy to say, ‘Hey, your teacher is a real person, by the way.’
MY: From the beginning, we wanted the show to not just be about kids. It’s about seeing the world from different perspectives, like the teacher, the mom, the team, the dad, and just really showing that everyone has something going on in their lives, and trying to make that as fun and empathetic as possible. With that episode in particular, it was interesting because, like Carrie said,while we were making it, we weren’t really worried at all. It was a lot of fun, especially like the dating app, trying to figure out the video game mechanics of that. But at one point we had an audience preview, and people were a little bit worried about if kids are gonna get this. And after, there was one little girl who just could not stop asking questions about Frank’s dating life. That was the moment where we were like, ‘oh yeah, this is just universal.’
CH: We tried to change the topic but no, back to Frank.
© Disney Pixar
The show is at its best when you’re heartbroken at the end of an episode where you laughed a lot. How do you get that balance right?
MY: That’s one of the things I enjoy most about storytelling. You’re laughing the whole time, and then at the end, you’re like, ‘Oh my gosh. What did I just learn about myself, or what did I just see in this character to help me in my life?’ It was definitely a process. I think from the beginning, we wanted that depth to each character. Pete Docter was always really helpful in that way, because his films are always like that. And from the beginning, we knew we were making a comedy, and just like the real world, the sincerity of life can just be so funny, especially if you just push the absurdity a little.
CH: Our filmmaking style is to lean into the bittersweet moments and the tough moments of life, making the more positive times even brighter. I noticed people asking along the way of making this show, ‘What are you teaching the kids?’ And we didn’t really go at it with an agenda of trying to teach a lesson, more like our characters are just dealing with something and you’re having a conversation as an audience member of how you would handle this. It’s not limited to kids. I feel like learning doesn’t stop at 18.
MY: This whole show is about how people in life are dealt bad calls on and off the field, so what do you do to deal with that? How do you respond to those bad calls? Do you do it in a positive way or a negative way?
CH: Each character has a philosophical question, but we don’t necessarily have an answer to it necessarily. We are just posing the question, and it may be very subtle, like for Lori’s episode, she’s wrestling with her doubt versus her faith in herself and whether or not she’s good enough or if she needs to be better to be loved by her dad.
© Disney Pixar
There was disappointment when the trans storyline was cut, how has that decision shaped the show?
CH: For us, Win or Lose is just about trying to build empathy for one another and we hope that that still comes through. Every single character is very special to us and the crew, and we put a lot of love into each one of them. We hope that the audience will feel that.
What changed about the show between Annecy 2023 and now, and what have you learned as creators by making the show?
CH: We were pretty much done at Annecy. We were just going into sound mix at Skywalker Ranch, which was a really awesome experience, and I think what we learned from that was it seemed people were enjoying it and laughing, and that was really awesome to get a response and to feel the warmth of that.
MY: I think this one was a very different process for both of us. I think one, because you’re leading a team, but also it was a very, very, collaborative group. We relied on our crew and they added so much richness and details to the entire process that I don’t know if I’ve ever worked on a film as collaborative as this.
Win or Lose is available now on Disney+